Manchester United vs Arsenal - 29th August, FA Premier League - Was it a dive?

[Cookie Monster]

Nay trueth!

edit after Arsenal's match: woo I didn't know refs in England were also so [censored]... and I didn't know Rooney could dive like Phelps!

Except Almunia clipped him.

But overall all the goals came from defensive mistakes. Diaby's was very clinical though.

PS: The day someone who watches the Portuguese league on a regular basis can criticise other leagues for diving...

Right, that PS was a fair call, but still, Diaby was very unlucky there and Almunia had absolutely nothing to do with what happened to Rooney. The only relation between Almunia and Rooney in what happened is that Almunia got a yellow card unfairly, because the ref didn't notice that Rooney was already going down before Almunia touched him. Also there was a penalty left to call for Arsenal when Fletcher took Arshavin down but still Arshavin scored right after that incident (and what a goal it was!). And to be fair Arsenal should do like Celtic did: write to the FA about Rooney's dive (Celtic wrote about Eduardo's dive) but still I think it'd be pointless because a) Rooney's English and b) it's United. Nobody's gonna do anything about this, even if it eventually ends up costing the league for Arsenal in the end. Also diving in Portugal has decreased (but there will never be no diving from Portuguese players while that idiot Ronaldo keeps playing imho) yet ref errors still maintain, even if slightly less.

edit: God bless YouTube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_BHpdoWXdA

Freeze it at 0:31. No contact at all. Okay, so maybe that angle is rather dubious.

Try this one instead: http://www.d1g.com/video/show/?id=3082066
His right leg bends before any contact with Almunia.

Also:

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1771/rooneydive31.png
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1606/rooneydive1.png

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/a...00_878047a.jpg

Image suggests otherwise.

Fletcher got half of the ball, half of the man. TV pictures were inconclusive, and the referee has to be 100% sure to give it.

I'd like to point you towards FC Braga against Portsmouth last year in the UEFA Cup. Absolute disgrace, clutching their faces every three seconds. Worse than the Andorrans.

Okay, Fletcher images were inconclusive indeed, at least for me they were. Check the videos and images i added via edit btw, and you'll see that Rooney was going down before any contact. To be fair my patriotism may suck a lot because I don't care about any other Portuguese teams other than Benfica, and i don't give a bloody damn about the coeficients. And yes, Braga are one of the worst teams in terms of stoppages. Look at them when they beat Sporting: going down every 5 minutes. Even the Portuguese FA website said there were only 50 minutes of an actual match, the rest were stoppages.

Now that you have read all arguments, do you think that it was a dive or not? There are images and videos referred above, check them, they may help judgement.

[JJU]

It was a dive. End of.

[Cookie Monster]

I ripped the video off the Arabic website with CamStudio, put it in slow motion and exported it in 1280x720 pixels (aka HD 720p) and uploaded it to http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XQAZA74D . It was a dive.

[AfterDeath]

Everybody just loves to call dive when it's Manchester United, but the overall point was there was contact and intent and that is all that is needed to give a penalty.

Anyhow, I doubt people here will be impartial, considering the amount of ABUs on the forum. But it doesn't change the result, and therefore Manchester United win.

Your two images show Rooney stretching for the ball. Generally when you stretch for the ball to get your toe to it that's what it looks like. One leg down.



Dive! Dive!

[AfterDeath]

And FYI, Almunia didn't even appeal. The person who fouled Rooney did not even appeal. So he obviously knew, and I'd trust his judgement rather than someone who's

ripped the video off the Arabic website with CamStudio, put it in slow motion and exported it in 1280x720 pixels (aka HD 720p) and uploaded it

but not actually seen it live.

[AfterDeath]

And, finally, to add an impartial view or two to my already strong case:

Arsenal keeper Manuel Almunia needlessly fouled Wayne Rooney after 59 minutes to allow the England striker to equalise from the penalty spot.

Foster's opposite number Manuel Almunia then allowed the hosts to draw level on 59 minutes as he brought down Rooney in the box and the United striker stepped up to send the Spaniard the wrong way from the spot.

When parity was restored on 59 minutes it was to United's immense relief. Ryan Giggs' superb pass found Rooney and Almunia charged out unnecessarily, felling the United striker.

A spectator at Goodison and Parkhead, a culprit against Portsmouth, and a conceder to Celtic's only shot on goal on Tuesday night, Manuel Almunia's start to the season was already wretched even before he gifted United a route back into a game they were deservedly losing. Decision-making is a critical component of goalkeeping and the Spaniard's completely unnecessary, completely stupid foray off his line is a substantial black mark against his reputation. In such a closely-fought league, an unreliable goalkeeper is a complete no-no for any side with title aspirations.

I'm not claiming that Arsenal didn't deserve to win because they obviously did, and Arshavin-Fletcher was 70-30 penalty in Arshavin's favour, but I don't think you can just write it off as a dive because the result didn't go the way you wanted it to.

And aren't we all forgetting Eboue?

Have fun kiddos, I look forward to the counter-arguments.

[Cookie Monster]

I did see the match on a stream, ask Nick and you'll know. Also Eboué's dive being considered a foul would not have any effect on a match, I mean, a scored penalty surely weighs more on a result than a free kick from near the midfield.

[AfterDeath]

I mean live as in in-the-flesh live. TV footage is only so useful.

[Cookie Monster]

Right, sorry for that, I didn't know you had watched it in Old Trafford. My opinion still stands though.

[AfterDeath]

I haven't. I watched it on TV. But Manuel Almunia was there.

EDIT: I've edited out anything that could be construed as offensive rather than jesting, as that was not my intention.

[Cookie Monster]

Thanks... btw what are ABUs?

[JJU]

Amphibious Beach Unit of course. When all is said and done, I still believe it was a dive and if Eduardo getting dragged over the coals for his means there's something actually done about it and players start to play with honesty again, so be it.

I mean, it'll free up a few million from Man Utd's budget as well..

[AfterDeath]

Republik of Mancunia seem to have had the same idea as me:

http://therepublikofmancunia.com/was-it-a-penalty/

[Cookie Monster]

edit: I hadn't read it properly, delete this post please..