New Star GP v1.08

[siread]

Hi guys. This is it, the final version of New Star Grand Prix (unless there are some remaining bugs, which there probably are :doh:) so get downloading!

PC Version
http://download.newstargames.com/Install_NSGP.exe

Mac Version
http://download.newstargames.com/NSGP.dmg

Changes v1.08
Altered liveries
Altered team and driver names
Changed track images
Disallowed commas and apostrophes in driver name to avoid leaderboard problems
Added season length to Settings.ini (Weeks)
Added career length to Settings.ini (Seasons)
Reduced amount of team changes at end of season

Changes v1.07
Fixed Quick race tracks not updating in new versions
Fixed ghost car not having front wheels
Fixed road car stats not loading correctly
Fixed test track not saving lap record
Fixed cars running out of fuel when changing total laps mid-race
Fixed not having a team in new season when signing new contract

[rmallen]

Hi guys. This is it, the final version of New Star Grand Prix (unless there are some remaining bugs, which there probably are :doh:) so get downloading!

http://download.newstargames.com/Install_NSGP107.exe

Changes v1.07
Fixed Quick race tracks not updating in new versions
Fixed ghost car not having front wheels
Fixed road car stats not loading correctly
Fixed test track not saving lap record
Fixed cars running out of fuel when changing total laps mid-race
Fixed not having a team in new season when signing new contract

eta on Mac?

[siread]

This evening. :)

[rmallen]

This evening. :)

Ultra awesome! Cheers.

[MarcoGazpacho]

As someone who has downloaded every update available on here (including all the recent ones), I must congratulate Si on how much this game has progressed.

There are still a couple of minor gremlins (sorry!), but nothing too horrendous. I still have no sound in qualifying, even after updating my Realtek AC97 audio driver to version A4.06 (the latest I can see for XP machines).

The other things are teeny:

* That speedometer still seems a bit big, but I can live with it.
* It rains too often halfway through a race, but curiously very rarely starts off wet and goes dry. The former has happened about 30-40 times during my 52-race NSGP career, the latter just once. I know real-life F1 has had more than its usual number of wet races lately (three out of the last four!), but this is a bit much.
* I'd still like the option to edit an existing racing line and walls more easily in the editor - particularly if I want to put a chicane on an existing circuit at turn 2 (for example)- then I have to redo 90% of the racing line!
* Drivers swap around the seats a bit too much, too. In my season 4, only one driver has stayed with the same team all throughout- Nick Heidfeld, whereas some moves have been curious...Kimi Raikkonen and Fernando Alonso are back at McLaren, for starters!

Other than that, an excellent game.

[siread]

I'll continue to look into the sound issue but I can't see what is different from qualifying and racing. Is it also a problem in practice? What about the road cars on the test track?

Regarding the speedo, what resolution are you using?

(PS the mac version is up. :))

[MarcoGazpacho]

For the sound issue, the road cars practice sound fine (although that Bugatti Veyron handles only just better than the bus :D), and the F1 cars sound fine in practice sessions too- it's only in qualifying when it doesn't work for the player car- I get no kerb grating sound or engine tone there. The only sounds I get from the player car are when it hits a wall or I'm refuelling and changing tyres. The AI cars' sounds are all present.

Speedometer looked the same size in 1024x768 and 1280x960 - it takes up a big chunk of the bottom left handed side of the screen. It hasn't impeded me at any time- I can always see where I'm going- I just find it cosmetically...well, big! :D

[Shepherd]

Ermm Si, im using 6B atm and set it to 25 laps for the whole race (didnt change) & then they all pitted at end of the of the last lap :wall::P

[bazik]

my problem persists :(

Can see the leaderboard once i go there, but not if i change the track or refresh, also cant post times!

I'm behind a router, is there a port i should be forwarding?

[diop]

1) When you reach first place you can end the race with an advantage of 60 seconds over the second in extreme level (60 laps)

2) theres is no point when refueling to fill it to the full (26 laps) because you will loose 9 s to fill it up, but you will also lose 2s to 3s each lap until your tank is at the right level. Also you can disgard the weather changes, so filling it up for 26 laps its not a good choice because when weather changes you have to pit

3) is there anyway to withraw de 10 seasons limit?

[happyloaf]

Hey SI, This version still runs very jittery in vista 64 bit. I have a 512Meg graphics card 9300m GS to be exact so this should be smooth as butter. I have turned off my AV while playing and it still gitters. Any advice?

[bazik]

Hey SI, This version still runs very jittery in vista 64 bit. I have a 512Meg graphics card 9300m GS to be exact so this should be smooth as butter. I have turned off my AV while playing and it still gitters. Any advice?

i doubt your graphics card as anything to do with the jittery, this is not a 3d game, if i had to bet i'd say the load is on the cpu. But i have a recent pc, and it jitters too but just sometimes.

[Alex Reeves]

Hi guys. This is it, the final version of New Star Grand Prix (unless there are some remaining bugs, which there probably are :doh:) so get downloading!


When you say "final version" does that mean that there will be no more feature requests added, and you'll only be doing bugfixes from now?

The key feature I'd like to see that hasn't made this version is the ability to save record laps and races, and for these to be raced against as ghost laps/races. The engine has the ability to get this information - I guess I don't know how much coding effort is involved in keeping that information and saving/loading it. But I think this would be a very popular feature and something that would add to the lngevity of the game significantly.

[Shepherd]

I wona see the safety car & more damage, example Wings flying off but all together great game SI :clap:

[Alex Reeves]

Safety Car won't happen, as Si says what's fun about driving around slowly in a line?

[Manta]

what is the process to install 1.07? For 1.04, I uninstalled the existing version (1.03) and installed 1.04 and I had to have my key reset. How do I avoid this? Leave 1.04 installed and just run the auto installer for 1.07?

[siread]

what is the process to install 1.07? For 1.04, I uninstalled the existing version (1.03) and installed 1.04 and I had to have my key reset. How do I avoid this? Leave 1.04 installed and just run the auto installer for 1.07?

Yes, you can just run the installer over the existing version. Keys should work either way, just make sure you use the same driver name that you used with the first use of the key. :)

[siread]

When you say "final version" does that mean that there will be no more feature requests added, and you'll only be doing bugfixes from now?

The key feature I'd like to see that hasn't made this version is the ability to save record laps and races, and for these to be raced against as ghost laps/races. The engine has the ability to get this information - I guess I don't know how much coding effort is involved in keeping that information and saving/loading it. But I think this would be a very popular feature and something that would add to the lngevity of the game significantly.

By final version, I just meant that the last 3 updates (1.05, 06, 06b) were betas, but this version will now go on the main download link on www.newstargames.com/nsgp.html.

I might add some features in the coming weeks but right now I need to update NSS4 (it still has some bugs :wall:).

[Alex Reeves]

By final version, I just meant that the last 3 updates (1.05, 06, 06b) were betas, but this version will now go on the main download link on www.newstargames.com/nsgp.html (http://www.newstargames.com/nsgp.html).

I might add some features in the coming weeks but right now I need to update NSS4 (it still has some bugs :wall:).

No worries - you've given us plenty to play with already! I need to get back to kicking butt on the leaderboard!

[bazik]

my problem persists :(

Can see the leaderboard once i go there, but not if i change the track or refresh, also cant post times!

I'm behind a router, is there a port i should be forwarding?

Siread could you please answer my post too? Ty

[Sida79]

404 Not Found :P

[Tortulho]

Hello, long time I haven't posted.

I got my hands on NSGP for the first time already on version 1.06 and noticed something a little odd with the KERS.

The KERS power bar should load when the car breaks, because that's the way the system recharges its batteries.

In the game, the KERS power bar is fully recovered when you cross the finish line at each lap.

However, I can understand that this game's focus in on fun more than realism, and also that the lap times are quite short and there are not that many occasions where the driver must brake. Therefore, I understand that this implementation of the KERS system is acceptable for most players.

[bazik]

Hello, long time I haven't posted.

I got my hands on NSGP for the first time already on version 1.06 and noticed something a little odd with the KERS.

The KERS power bar should load when the car breaks, because that's the way the system recharges its batteries.

In the game, the KERS power bar is fully recovered when you cross the finish line at each lap.

However, I can understand that this game's focus in on fun more than realism, and also that the lap times are quite short and there are not that many occasions where the driver must brake. Therefore, I understand that this implementation of the KERS system is acceptable for most players.

Have you seen Formula 1 this year?
The KERS behavior is 100% coherent with real F1. Seems odd you say this, if you watched any F1 tv transmission this year.

What you say about breaking recharging KERS is true, BUT, you are missing a big point here. KERS is only allowed 6.6 seconds each lap. So even though the KERS charges with braking (or charging the batteries manualy before starting ;)), when you use it in F1, you can't deplete it (spend it) all at once, because of the 6.6 seconds limitation, so, the battery shown in the heads up display is the batery FOR THAT LAP, not the whole KERS, and so it "recharges" again each lap, (it doesn't reacharge, but you recharge the option to use more!).

if you watched F1 on tv this year, you would notice the heads up display of the tv transmission, behaves exactly like the one in game, "recharging" on passing the finish line

I hope this clears your doubts. :)

[Tortulho]

Thanks for you explanation, bazik, I was not aware of the 6.6 seconds limitation. And you have guessed it right, I haven't watched F1 live this season yet.

[happyloaf]

I am still having the jittery screen problem. I have tried turning off my AV and other programs and no luck. It seems to always happen on the same spot on the track each lap. Any advice or hope for a fix in a future update?

[siread]

I am still having the jittery screen problem. I have tried turning off my AV and other programs and no luck. It seems to always happen on the same spot on the track each lap. Any advice or hope for a fix in a future update?

Which track, which spot?

[bazik]

siread, please can you answer my question some posts up? :( i still can't upload any times, or see the leaderboard

[Alex Reeves]

I've also noticed this, seems that CPU and memory utilisation on 1.07 is a lot higher than previous versions. Any chance there's some debug flags still on?

[rmallen]

I found an annoying little bug :P

I ran out of fuel literally right as I hit my pit stop, so theoretically I should've been fine. The refuelling window came up right before the FUEL EMPTY signal... except that after I refilled, it let me keep racing, I just couldn't move very fast. Even once I got back out on the main track I could hardly move, as if I had no fuel....

[happyloaf]

I have noticed it mostly on Australia and China. It seems that when the stands appear the framerate dips and it is about the time that the laps expected graphic pops up on the bottom of the screen. I have a 2 gig dual core with 4 gig ram and vista 64 with a geforce 9300m GS card in case that helps. I have tried turning off all background apps and have the system running on the bare minimum. I use the highest view but the jerkyness seems to appear worse with higher cams but is still present on the lower camera angles as well.

[happyloaf]

I did find turning off threading optimization made it run a little bit better. If that helps?

[hellboy1975]

I found an annoying little bug :P

I ran out of fuel literally right as I hit my pit stop, so theoretically I should've been fine. The refuelling window came up right before the FUEL EMPTY signal... except that after I refilled, it let me keep racing, I just couldn't move very fast. Even once I got back out on the main track I could hardly move, as if I had no fuel....
I've had this happen to me once before also, I think I posted it somewhere but not sure which thread now!

[siread]

my problem persists :(

Can see the leaderboard once i go there, but not if i change the track or refresh, also cant post times!

I'm behind a router, is there a port i should be forwarding?

It goes through port 80. Try running in debug mode and see what errors you get in the log file.

[bazik]

It goes through port 80. Try running in debug mode and see what errors you get in the log file.

it gets weirder:

without debug mod, the 1st time i try to go to the leaderboard, i can retrieve it, and when i try to change the track or refresh it can't, but on debug mode that 1st i can't get it.

the relevant lines on the log file just say:


RetrieveLeaderboard:3
Couldn't resolve host name

and when i try to uplaod a time:



http://www.newstargames.com/submittime2.php?name=(#myname)&trackno=3&laptime=47957&country=England&team=Force (http://www.newstargames.com/submittime2.php?name=%28#myname%29&trackno=3&laptime=47957&country=England&team=Force) India&handling=2.5&acceleration=3.0&topspeed=2.5&license=(#mylicense)&mdfive=(#somehash)
Create message: New Star Grand Prix
it says it can't connect but i think the 2nd line in the log is irrelevant and not related to that.

PS: obviously the (#text) are mine and not from the original log file :P

[siread]

What happens if you copy and paste that line into your browser?

[siread]

Update! I have been informed by the FOA that I cannot use the term "Grand Prix". I have therefore changed the name to New Star GP. I have updated the game to 1.08 to reflect this and altered a few more things that may have been a bit too close to reality (driver and team names and logos). I am waiting for a response to see if there is anything else I need to change.

Changes v1.08
Altered liveries
Altered team and driver names
Changed track images
Disallowed commas and apostrophes in driver name to avoid leaderboard problems
Added season length to Settings.ini (Weeks)
Added career length to Settings.ini (Seasons)
Reduce amount of team changes at end of season

[markohladnik]

Monaco track image is still there ... the names are not changes in quick races, and drivers all have white helmets. Sorry ...

[bazik]

What happens if you copy and paste that line into your browser?

the SQL command to insert into the laprecords table in the database appears:



INSERT INTO laprecords VALUES (NULL, 'Tiago Silva', '3', '47957', 'Force India', '2.5', '3.0', '2.5', 'England', CURRENT_TIMESTAMP, '(#mylicense)')Time submitted! Name: Tiago Silva, Time: 47957


seems it works on the browser.


Update! I have been informed by the FOA that I cannot use the term "Grand Prix". I have therefore changed the name to New Star GP. I have updated the game to 1.08 to reflect this and altered a few more things that may have been a bit too close to reality (driver and team names and logos). I am waiting for a response to see if there is anything else I need to change.

Changes v1.08
Altered liveries
Altered team and driver names
Changed track images
Disallowed commas and apostrophes in driver name to avoid leaderboard problems
Added season length to Settings.ini (Weeks)
Added career length to Settings.ini (Seasons)
Reduce amount of team changes at end of season

Regarding this, why did you disable leaderboard on the mods? since it now has the stats for the car, does it matter you are running a mod?
Cause now i'm more tempted to use the 2009 mod and its a shame leaderboards are disabled for mods.

[Alex Reeves]

Regarding this, why did you disable leaderboard on the mods? since it now has the stats for the car, does it matter you are running a mod?
Cause now i'm more tempted to use the 2009 mod and its a shame leaderboards are disabled for mods.

Allowing mods and leaderboards is basically an open license to cheaters. It would be way to easy to mod the mod, so to speak, and then the leaderboard is pointless.

[w1lla]

After time of qualifying is ended still you can make a lap record.

That one bugs me because its not really fair.

When cars crash or anything else remove them from competition....

Like a yellow or red flag for example.

[bazik]

After time of qualifying is ended still you can make a lap record.

In real qualify, if you start a lap and the qualifying time is not over, it doesn't matter if the time finishes while you are doing it, it still counts! That's the way it happens in real life, so its not a bug, and definitely not unfair.

[w1lla]

well alot of AI cars just make a new lap when the timer is finished....

[bazik]

well alot of AI cars just make a new lap when the timer is finished....

that's because they started the lap when time was still running, you can do that too so its not unfair.

[bazik]

Small bug:

i changed the default KERS button, but everytime i start a new career NSGP remembers all my custom keys, except the Boost one.

[Sida79]

Update! I have been informed by the FOA that I cannot use the term "Grand Prix".

wtf? the term grand prix existed decades before formula one itself and it is still today used in countless names of sports, games, cars, and events all over the globe.

[MarcoGazpacho]

The new game is New Star General Practitioner? ;)

I'm tempted not to update, just to spite FOA :D

[satchel]

wtf? the term grand prix existed decades before formula one itself and it is still today used in countless names of sports, games, cars, and events all over the globe.

Agreed (Grand Prix exists in snooker, futsal, gliding, tennis, figure skating, volleyball, darts, ski jumping, motorcycle racing, etc.)

But, in the context of Formula One racing, the term is rather specific.

[Fry Crayola]

After time of qualifying is ended still you can make a lap record.


That's the intention. In real F1 qualifying, if you started your lap prior to the end of the allotted time, the lap will contribute towards your qualification efforts.

Earlier versions stopped when the time expired and this is one of the requested changes.

[ravezz]

Question about the settings.ini (engine.ini):

So it's possible now to reduce the races in one season to - for example - 5 or 10?
How does this work then, e.g. for 10 races.
Does the game automatically use the first 10 tracks and doesn't use the 7 last tracks then?


One further question:

Are the parameters seasonlength=x and careerlength=y necessary for running the game, or do I have to add them to the older engine.ini of my mod?

[JJU]

Without knowing the specifics of what Si was sent about the term 'Grand Prix', I would tell them to do one! As sida says, the term has been around for ages and is not specific to F1 racing.

[scuff]

It's not worth the risk of being taken to court. Even with a good case, it'd take up so much time and money to fight that it wouldn't be worth it. And if you lose its goodnight New Star Games...

[ravezz]

It's not worth the risk of being taken to court. Even with a good case, it'd take up so much time and money to fight that it wouldn't be worth it. And if you lose its goodnight New Star Games...

You're right.
With the potential of mods it's no big problem, but of course a bit pity for driving online..

[Alex Reeves]

Just had a situation in Bahrain where qualifying finished on 0:00:00. Only happened on Bahrain, other tracks have been fine in letting me finish my final lap after 0:00:00. Not a biggie, as I'd already qualified pole, but a little weird.

Running 1.07. Will see if I can replicate on other tracks.

[Sida79]

Wouldn't it be funny, though, if the game was now to be named New Star Formula One? hehe

[bazik]

I dunno why you are making such a fuss around a simple 'Grand Prix' to 'GP'. :doh:

[JJU]

I fully agree with sida though, as who gave these people the right to dictate who can use a term that is NOT copyrighted nor exclusively used in F1 or motorsport in general? Anything linked to driver or team names, fair enough. It's just the principle.

[Shepherd]

Spot on game Si, well done :clap:
Hopefully NSGP2 will be out in the future (obviousely like few years), and theres career mode like GP3,GP2,GP1 ect :)

But as for the first ever NSGP very good and addictive:dance:

E: Jw if you can put career seasons up from 10, will the drivers be driving when there like 90? :D

[Sida79]

E: Jw if you can put career seasons up from 10, will the drivers be driving when there like 90? :D

Why not, Barrichello is! :dance:

[bazik]

Why not, Barrichello is! :dance:

actually the current record is almost 56 years :P, done by this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Chiron) in 1955.

[Shepherd]

Lol :D The speed would kill them.. give them a heart attack! :blimey::D

[Chilli]

Could the Qualifying times be displayed so when your in 20th... so you know how far off the pace you are? Even if it displays how far you are behind position in front and behind.. Like it does in race....

[Shepherd]

Ermm Im JW, i started a game with few MOD's example name changes and Season length up.. Game loads perfect ect but when i press to practise it just turns off.. any help?

E: Does same when i try to Quick Race Also :(

[bazik]

there is anoter BuG on 1.08, this time regarding the mods, the /Mods/[modname]/Media/Tracks pictures are ignored, and the main ones are used.

and Siread, please dont forget that other issue, i can't access the leaderboards without mods

and oh.. please unblock the mods to allow access to the leaderboards, since the Acc, TSp and Han of each car are also posted, why to exclude mods from the leaderboards?

[Rory426]

there is anoter BuG on 1.08, this time regarding the mods, the /Mods/[modname]/Media/Tracks pictures are ignored, and the main ones are used.

and Siread, please dont forget that other issue, i can't access the leaderboards without mods

and oh.. please unblock the mods to allow access to the leaderboards, since the Acc, TSp and Han of each car are also posted, why to exclude mods from the leaderboards?

If you alter the tracks, then the times shouldn't be on the leaderboard! Pick one, can't have both! :P

[Cookie Monster]

The game should check what's the mod that is being used doing. If there's a DB mod, block the access. If there's an engine.ini mod, block the access. If there's a track mod, block the access. If there's a graphics mod, don't block the access.

[bazik]

If you alter the tracks, then the times shouldn't be on the leaderboard! Pick one, can't have both! :P

My mod doesn't alter tracks, so its not really a choice.


The game should check what's the mod that is being used doing. If there's a DB mod, block the access. If there's an engine.ini mod, block the access. If there's a track mod, block the access. If there's a graphics mod, don't block the access.

engine.ini mod, YES block it
track mod, YES block it
but DB mod? NO, don't block it. what's the problem of that? even in the game with no mods, the cars specs go up and down, so what is the problem of altering that? the specs for the game without mods are rubish, ferrari is like the best team, and this season they suck, so naturally i changed it, but when i post a time, the specs of my car are posted with it, so i don't see the problem.
also like it was said graphical mods would also access.

[bazik]

My boss is crazy. Career in extreme, Force India, i finish the 1st to races in dead LAST 20th, and he promotes me to 1st driver? :S is this a bug?

[Alex Reeves]

and Siread, please dont forget that other issue, i can't access the leaderboards without mods

and oh.. please unblock the mods to allow access to the leaderboards, since the Acc, TSp and Han of each car are also posted, why to exclude mods from the leaderboards?

This just opens the door to cheating. It's not worth the risk to the integrity of the leaderboards.

[bazik]

engine.ini mod, YES block it
track mod, YES block it
but DB mod? NO, don't block it. what's the problem of that? even in the game with no mods, the cars specs go up and down, so what is the problem of altering that? the specs for the game without mods are rubish, ferrari is like the best team, and this season they suck, so naturally i changed it, but when i post a time, the specs of my car are posted with it, so i don't see the problem.
also like it was said graphical mods would also access.


This just opens the door to cheating. It's not worth the risk to the integrity of the leaderboards.

After that post of mine, can you tell me how exactly that would open the door for cheating? i dont see how really

[Alex Reeves]

After that post of mine, can you tell me how exactly that would open the door for cheating? i dont see how really

Show me ANY online game which allows modding that has not had an issue with cheaters.

Once you allow the ability to modify the game, there will almost inevitably be idiots who use this power to promote their own vanity rather than their ability. And while I have respect for Si's ability, I'm certain that there are clever people out there that will work out a way to exploit this. It's already happened before the 1.05 release. If you allow modded leaderboard scores, it will be that much easier for it to happen again.

[w1lla]

www.trackmania.com can use mods....

Well there are cheaters but only based on source code of the game....

[Alex Reeves]

Trackmania also has cheaters... they had to put a LOT of effort into anti-cheating, and still there are issues. I wouldn't want Si to have to spend valuable development time on that sort of thing.

[Cookie Monster]

My mod doesn't alter tracks, so its not really a choice.



engine.ini mod, YES block it
track mod, YES block it
but DB mod? NO, don't block it. what's the problem of that? even in the game with no mods, the cars specs go up and down, so what is the problem of altering that? the specs for the game without mods are rubish, ferrari is like the best team, and this season they suck, so naturally i changed it, but when i post a time, the specs of my car are posted with it, so i don't see the problem.
also like it was said graphical mods would also access.

DB mods should block, because if you're using for example a 1966 mod, the specs and skills and whatnots are all very different from the ones in the original DB.

[bazik]

Show me ANY online game which allows modding that has not had an issue with cheaters.

Once you allow the ability to modify the game, there will almost inevitably be idiots who use this power to promote their own vanity rather than their ability. And while I have respect for Si's ability, I'm certain that there are clever people out there that will work out a way to exploit this. It's already happened before the 1.05 release. If you allow modded leaderboard scores, it will be that much easier for it to happen again.


DB mods should block, because if you're using for example a 1966 mod, the specs and skills and whatnots are all very different from the ones in the original DB.

i love how people don't use logic.

i just asked you this, if you only allow graphics and db mods, how will there be cheating. your answer? instead of thinking in possible way for it to happen? no... just tell me other games don't allow it too and that it happened before.

Please, THINK.

what happened before, you think it was a db mod? i think not, what probably happen was a track mod, or an engine mod.

Having a different or even very different database is not an issue, and i'll tell you why. The only think that could mess with times, that can be changed in the db is the cars specs: the acceleration, top speed and handling. BUT, even with no mods at all, car specs float randomly, and that's why, now the online scoreboard has the car specs posted alongside with the time. So what is the issue? if your car is terribly bad, like in 1966, the specs are there to show it... if your car is terribly good, the specs are also there.

And please, if you're going to rebute this facts, (and i don't mind an healthy discussion at all) do it with logic, think about a way you can cheat using only that, don't talk about or other games or unrelated things.

Because i can think in some ways for someone to cheat, (not that i will, but you must think like a cheater in order to stop them), non of those ways are easy enough for just anyone who wants to cheat to be able, but with some effort i reckon its possible, but non of those ways involve a simple change in the DB, and yet that's what you are worried about :rolleyes:

[Sven]

Is there a way to set it to NOT rain in Bahrain? I can live with higher-than-expected wet conditions on every other track but that one. If it just rained for 19/20 laps like it did with me, I think the stands would be emptying. :)

[Alex Reeves]

i love how people don't use logic.

i just asked you this, if you only allow graphics and db mods, how will there be cheating. your answer? instead of thinking in possible way for it to happen? no... just tell me other games don't allow it too and that it happened before.

Please, THINK.



Counterstrike used a graphics mod to make walls invisible....

FACT - we've already had instances of cheating on the leaderboard.
FACT - this was most likely done using a mod.
FACT - Si has put anti-cheaing code on the leaderboard, and to prevent future issues has blocked mods from recording to the leaderboard.

Frankly, I'm not interested in thinking about the how's of what could be used to cheat using mods. I also don't want Si to have to think about it. Valve, Nadeo, Blizzard and others have massive teams that can watch and deal with this stuff. Si is just one guy.

While 98% of alterations are done with good intentions and would most likely have no impact, once you open that door there's no turning back. All it takes is one person to find something they can tweak or exploit, and the integrity of every time on there is suspect. If everyone works off the same baseline, then it's a fair fight and everyone's record gets recorded on the same code. And Si can spend his time making the game better, not having to fight hackers and cheaters.

[Alex Reeves]

Is there a way to set it to NOT rain in Bahrain? I can live with higher-than-expected wet conditions on every other track but that one. If it just rained for 19/20 laps like it did with me, I think the stands would be emptying. :)

*grin* I've noticed this too with Bahrain particularly.... I suggested an RFE with a daily weather report and the rain probabilities to more accurately reflect the geography.

[bazik]

Is there a way to set it to NOT rain in Bahrain? I can live with higher-than-expected wet conditions on every other track but that one. If it just rained for 19/20 laps like it did with me, I think the stands would be emptying. :)

Maybe there is a bug, i just got the 1st 3 races dry, and bahrain wet. In the database, only Bahrain and Abu Dhabi are marked climate = 3, so i wonder, maybe the game is interpreting this to be very wet, instead of very dry?

or maybe its just because its Bahrain :P

[bazik]

Counterstrike used a graphics mod to make walls invisible....

FACT - we've already had instances of cheating on the leaderboard.
FACT - this was most likely done using a mod.
FACT - Si has put anti-cheaing code on the leaderboard, and to prevent future issues has blocked mods from recording to the leaderboard.

Frankly, I'm not interested in thinking about the how's of what could be used to cheat using mods. I also don't want Si to have to think about it. Valve, Nadeo, Blizzard and others have massive teams that can watch and deal with this stuff. Si is just one guy.

While 98% of alterations are done with good intentions and would most likely have no impact, once you open that door there's no turning back. All it takes is one person to find something they can tweak or exploit, and the integrity of every time on there is suspect. If everyone works off the same baseline, then it's a fair fight and everyone's record gets recorded on the same code. And Si can spend his time making the game better, not having to fight hackers and cheaters.

i love how you keep sayin examples of other games.. did you even read my post?

1)
Counter strike used a graphics mod to cheat... hummm love this example, so can you cheat using a graphics mods here? do you realize how bad an example that was?

2)
1st and 2nd facts, there were instances of cheating before, yes, but there was in a time EVERY mod was allowed, engine changes, etc...

3rd fact, yeah i saw that, but what i'm saying is that its possible to allow more and still have the same effect.

3)
I find it surprising how people proud themselves of not wanting to think.. its really an useful thing :rolleyes:
Lets do it together shall we?

Have you ever saw the inside of the database? i'm guessing not. The only thing there you can change that has an effect on times is the acceleration, top speed and handling of the cars. Is this a problem? No, because no matter how good or bad the car is, the acc. speed and handling are posted along side with the times AND, in the career with no mods at all this already vary, so you can have very good cars or bad with no mods at all

So what could be done? have the integrity check (i believe siread is using the checksum of the files), but check only the engine.ini and the track files and skip the db file. This would detect changes on THOSE files, which allow easy cheating. And voilá! All the harmful mods are blocked and the innocents are not.

4)
Now i'm not saying i own reason, but if you want to prove me wrong you have to find an example that shows that if i had my way it would be possible to cheat.
It could be the case, that you dont grasp the workings of software developing, which is normal we dont have to be experts in every field, but if you cannot understand how this type of things work, i think its probably better not to be so against something you dont fully undestand, you might be stoping progress because you're affraid of what you cannot understand and fear that doom will come. But there is no reason to be afraid.

[Alex Reeves]

3)
I find it surprising how people proud themselves of not wanting to think.. its really an useful thing :rolleyes:
Lets do it together shall we?


*flame retardant suit on*

The CS example was one of allowing an innocuous modding system which turned out to be exploitable to make the game unfair. No-one thought of this as a way to cheat until they did it. Rather than throwing flames out about the level of thought on this, I'll let you reflect on how this analogy works.

I admit, I've not looked into the inner working of the back-end database, nor do I really care to. But as a player of the game and someone who enjoys the competition of the online leaderboard, I find it reassuring that there is an enforced level playing field. I do know enough about software development to know that changes can have unintended consequences, that is quite literally the definition of a bug and/or an exploit. The only person who can truly know the full extent of any change is Si, because he has the source code and the complete ability to debug this. And if his decision is that mods shouldn't be allowed in the leaderboard, then I'm going to prefer his opinion on it before someone who's playing at reverse engineering what their changes may do.

[bazik]

*flame retardant suit on*

The CS example was one of allowing an innocuous modding system which turned out to be exploitable to make the game unfair. No-one thought of this as a way to cheat until they did it. Rather than throwing flames out about the level of thought on this, I'll let you reflect on how this analogy works.

I admit, I've not looked into the inner working of the back-end database, nor do I really care to. But as a player of the game and someone who enjoys the competition of the online leaderboard, I find it reassuring that there is an enforced level playing field. I do know enough about software development to know that changes can have unintended consequences, that is quite literally the definition of a bug and/or an exploit. The only person who can truly know the full extent of any change is Si, because he has the source code and the complete ability to debug this. And if his decision is that mods shouldn't be allowed in the leaderboard, then I'm going to prefer his opinion on it before someone who's playing at reverse engineering what their changes may do.

First, sorry for the flame, i was just frustrated, because i pointed out some reasonings and it seemed to me that you just ignoreded them, but i'm sorry.

You are right, the only one who knows at full extent the possibilities is Si. i just spoke as someone who has some experience in the field and also fiddled around with the db to make my mod. So i 100% believe that if the changes that i proposed were to be made, there is no way to exploit it, because the part being allowed is VERY VERY limited, this is not CS, the allowed mods would be 36x36 pictures with a database, nothing else.

Now all i'm asking is that Siread, who knows very well how is game works to reconsider based on the things i said, and that wouldn't really take that much time from him, since he knows the game best.

[captinfranko]

Whilst i love this game I am becoming more and more annoyed at the fact that it is virtually impossible to gauge the amount of fuel that the car will use. This makes it very difficult to race as you have virtually no clue how to gauge a strategy and the other cars all seem to be helped by a ross brawn level strategists. :wall: :wall: :wall:

[Cookie Monster]

i just asked you this, if you only allow graphics and db mods, how will there be cheating. your answer? instead of thinking in possible way for it to happen? no... just tell me other games don't allow it too and that it happened before.

With my previous posts in this thread regarding this issue, I tried to suggest that all mods but graphics mods would block access to the leaderboards... come on, seeing as you are doing a DB mod, you should know people can tinker with the stats in the DB and make their teams or cars (can't remember now) act like Superman or whatever.

[ravezz]

Whilst i love this game I am becoming more and more annoyed at the fact that it is virtually impossible to gauge the amount of fuel that the car will use. This makes it very difficult to race as you have virtually no clue how to gauge a strategy and the other cars all seem to be helped by a ross brawn level strategists. :wall: :wall: :wall:

My solution for this:

I always drive the practice runs with the half tank of fuel only and observe how many laps i can go with it. Based on this I plan my pit strategy ;)

[Cookie Monster]

After updating, when I click on the Load Game button the game closes. Log attached.

Specs:

Intel Pentium Dual Core T3200 (2x2.00ghz)
ATi Mobility Radeon HD3470 (256mb, HyperMemory disabled using ATi Tray Tools)
3GB RAM (3x1GB DDR2 @667MHz)
Windows Vista Home Premium SP2 RC1

[Sida79]

I've finished my first season on extreme difficulty, the things that bother me are:

AI is insane. They show no respect whatsoever and will crash into you mercilessly. Except for 3 or 4 all my races looked the same: qualified in the middle and was lucky enough if after lap 1 my car was "only" half way destroyed. And this happens when going into extremes to AVOID collision. Driving like an F1 driver normally would, thinking no one will crash into you for no reason (like when you are much faster and have already passed an opponent or when the opponent is much faster and has already passed you) I end up completely destroyed on about 1st half of the 1st lap :)

Also, it tends to overtake by crashing into you... you slow down to enter a curve and it rams you from behind :lol:. The funny thing is that if you manage to enter a curve by cutting JUST NEAR a wall (if it is there) in its wish to crash into you the AI will crash straight into that wall full speed :wall::D

The fuel also does not make much sense. In the season I just finished, Brazilian GP, I had 0.6 laps of fuel when I entered the last lap, I tanked nearly 3 times as many (was aiming for 1.5 laps of fuel) and I stopped WAY before the finish line :(

everything else is sweet :) just the lack of AI driver skills makes switching teams pointless :)

[Shepherd]

Yeh although the game is amazing, would be more intresting if the Racers were more friendly lol.. Same for the same team driver as you, he never lets you pass him even if ure alot faster and pushing for points. (if you lap him)

Would be nice to see the drivers more realistic like letting you passed when u lap. I dont think the other drivers infront should stop as there trying to defend there position but atleast team mate / others once lapped should move out the way.

Sector Times would be great also and real life Quali like Round 1 , 2 , 3.

Another little thing would be more information from team radio :)

Other than that, Great Job SI :clap:

[bazik]

I've finished my first season on extreme difficulty, the things that bother me are:

AI is insane. They show no respect whatsoever and will crash into you mercilessly. Except for 3 or 4 all my races looked the same: qualified in the middle and was lucky enough if after lap 1 my car was "only" half way destroyed. And this happens when going into extremes to AVOID collision. Driving like an F1 driver normally would, thinking no one will crash into you for no reason (like when you are much faster and have already passed an opponent or when the opponent is much faster and has already passed you) I end up completely destroyed on about 1st half of the 1st lap :)

Also, it tends to overtake by crashing into you... you slow down to enter a curve and it rams you from behind :lol:. The funny thing is that if you manage to enter a curve by cutting JUST NEAR a wall (if it is there) in its wish to crash into you the AI will crash straight into that wall full speed :wall::D

The fuel also does not make much sense. In the season I just finished, Brazilian GP, I had 0.6 laps of fuel when I entered the last lap, I tanked nearly 3 times as many (was aiming for 1.5 laps of fuel) and I stopped WAY before the finish line :(

everything else is sweet :) just the lack of AI driver skills makes switching teams pointless :)

I fully agree, the AI resembles more of a Stock Car Destruction Derby than an F1 race. I'm playing a season in extreme too, and with a Force India, when i manage a middle qualify, i invariably end up in the end, after the 1st lap, cause i try not to get destroyed, which most of the time means letting them pass you.

[Sida79]

Identical experience here. I don't mind arcade-y racing with bumping but damage should be lessened in that case. If I don't qualify near the top (which was very rare in Force India) therefore eliminating the number of crazy AI around trying to destroy me, I might as well park it and wait till everyone passes :) It's one thing when you're aggressive and reckless, and completely another when you're trying your best to avoid any contact and end up broken in a second :)



I fully agree, the AI resembles more of a Stock Car Destruction Derby than an F1 race. I'm playing a season in extreme to, and with a Force India, when i manage e middle qualify, i invariably end up in the end, after the 1st lap, cause i try not to get destroyed, which most of the time means letting them pass you.

[Tortulho]

I don't know if anyone has already reported this. While changing teams or drivers names (in-game, in the teams and drivers menu, without resorting to any mods or database changes), the game stops responding. The music still plays and the mouse pointer moves but I can't get out of the teams and drivers menu or click any other of the buttons on that menu. The way to get out of it for me was to terminate the program.

BTW, i am using the latest version (1.08).

[bazik]

Isn't Bahrain circuit another track where NSGP is going the in the wrong direction? i'm on linux right now, and seeing the GP, but it seems i remenber driving that track in reverse order in NSGP, will confirm this when i finish here in linux.

[rodruiz]

Isn't Bahrain circuit another track where NSGP is going the in the wrong direction? i'm on linux right now, and seeing the GP, but it seems i remenber driving that track in reverse order in NSGP, will confirm this when i finish here in linux.

I think Bahrain is correct.

However, didn't anyone notice the other cars are facing the wrong direction at the beginning of the qualifying sessions? (on almost all tracks)

[bazik]

I think Bahrain is correct.

However, didn't anyone notice the other cars are facing the wrong direction at the beginning of the qualifying sessions? (on almost all tracks)

i did! But since they go out of pits correctly it didn't bother me at all.
Still think that i drove on bahrain the wrong direction.. but i will confirm it in about 20mins :P

[scuff]

My concern about the AI isn't that it drives like a maniac* but that the AI isn't very good at passing backmarkers. They don't yield, and if they encounter 3 or 4 or them, they can find it very tough to overtake 2 of them, without the other one barging up the inside and taking
the place back. And if they do get through, they have a beat up car.

My pit strategy is entirely based around getting clear track, so I can pile in fast laps while the best cars are swapping bodywork with the worst.


*It drives like I used to on these games when I was younger, pile up the inside and use the other guy as a brake.

[Shepherd]

Identical experience here. I don't mind arcade-y racing with bumping but damage should be lessened in that case. If I don't qualify near the top (which was very rare in Force India) therefore eliminating the number of crazy AI around trying to destroy me, I might as well park it and wait till everyone passes :) It's one thing when you're aggressive and reckless, and completely another when you're trying your best to avoid any contact and end up broken in a second :)


You guys can change the settings, for example i changed mine to:

Crash into wall = 4.0 Damage
Crash into Car = 0.2 Damage

This way its more realistic and like 3/4 crashes into a wall ure a goner

[bazik]

i did! But since they go out of pits correctly it didn't bother me at all.
Still think that i drove on bahrain the wrong direction.. but i will confirm it in about 20mins :P

yeah i was wrong, its all right!

[siread]

Regarding mods and cheating, simple db mods should be possible by replacing the NSGP.db in the Documents/New Star Grand Prix/Database folder. That means you can change team/driver names, car stats etc. Then when you start a new career you will see the changes. I haven't tested this properly, but it should be possible and will allow you to compete on the leaderboards.

Regarding the com AI, it might be possible to improve it slightly through the tweaking of variables in the Engine.ini.

Imagine 2 circles in front of the car, one slightly to the left and one to the right. This isn't a perfect illustration by any means, but it should help you to see what I mean.


O
/
[car]
\
O

Basically, if an opposing car is in one of these invisible circles then the driver will know that the direction is blocked and he will move in the opposite direction. If both circles are blocked then he will brake.

collisionangle=32.5
This is the angle of the circles from the forward direction of the car.

collisioncheckdist=6.0
This is how far away the circles are from the car.

collisionsize=5.5
This is the size of the circles.

This means you can make the COM drivers more cautious by increasing the size of the circle or change the angle and distance of the circle to react sooner or later.

It's possible to mess up the AI completely with these settings but the more curious/dedicated players might want to see if they can improve upon the settings. I'm sure they are not perfect. :)

PS, changing the collision settings won't disable leaderboards. ;)

[Alex Reeves]

Interesting Si, thanks for the feedback. With the AI setttings, would it be possible to set these on a per driver or per-team basis? This could be a way to give the drivers a different driving style or personality, and spice up their racing styles. I understand that this would need a fair bit of playtesting to get right, but could make racing a lot more interesting as well as letting drivers become a little more than just Names.

The other big AI issue is simulating "blue flag" situations to let lapped drivers pass. Perhaps a rear sensor for this could be used, and some logic around acting when a car is close could help here?

[bazik]

Thx a lot siread for the light on those things, good to know!

so just to clear some things.


O
|
[Car]
|
Oif you wanted to put it like the scheme above, it would be collisionangle = 90.0 ? or 180.0? (seems 90 from what you describe)
Also where is the center of the angle? the front of the car? center? rear? (seems frontal from the scheme you made)

[siread]

Thx a lot siread for the light on those things, good to know!

so just to clear some things.


O
|
[Car]
|
Oif you wanted to put it like the scheme above, it would be collisionangle = 90.0 ? or 180.0? (seems 90 from what you describe)
Also where is the center of the angle? the front of the car? center? rear? (seems frontal from the scheme you made)

The angle would be 90. Directly in front of the car is 0. :)

[bazik]

That explains why they keep ramming me from sideways, they are blind there.. gonna tweak and make some experiments. Thanks

[bazik]

oh one more thing, those sizes, can you compared them to the car for a reference?

what's the length of a car on those units?
If we had that we wouldn't need to guess, and test, we would just make a draw and fiddle things on the draw like we wanted and then translate the draw to the values.

[ravezz]

Tested the values 15/8.0/7.5 and the AI drivers are driving - as expected - much more defensive. Too defensive. ;)

Seems to need a long testing phase..

[bazik]

Tested the values 15/8.0/7.5 and the AI drivers are driving - as expected - much more defensive. Too defensive. ;)

Seems to need a long testing phase..

yeah i'm testing with
collisionangle=40.0
collisioncheckdist=6.0
collisionsize=10.0

its alot better, but they give too much space in front, thats why we need the relative sizes, if we have them, you know what size are the "balls" and can estimate it alot better.

I think siread must know what a 6.0 size is... how long is a car? 2.0? 3.0? i have no clue..

[siread]

The car is 36 pixels long.

The circle size is 16 + (collisionsize x speed). So the circle has a minimum radius of 16 pixels (when not moving). The faster the car is going the bigger the collision check. Car speed ranges from 0 to 8.75. So at top speed the circle radius is 16 + (6.0 x 8.75) = 68.5 pixels. (Roughly 2 car lengths, or 4 cars in diameter.)

Similarly the circle distance is 24 + (collisioncheckdist x speed) from the centre of the car between the two front wheels. So the mimimum distance is 24 pixels (when not moving) and the maximum is 24 + (5.5 x 8.75) = 72.125 pixels.

[bazik]

The car is 36 pixels long.

The circle size is 16 + (collisionsize x speed). So the circle has a minimum radius of 16 pixels (when not moving). The faster the car is going the bigger the collision check. Car speed ranges from 0 to 8.75. So at top speed the circle radius is 16 + (6.0 x 8.75) = 68.5 pixels. (Roughly 2 car lengths, or 4 cars in diameter.)

Similarly the circle distance is 24 + (collisioncheckdist x speed) from the centre of the car between the two front wheels. So the mimimum distance is 24 pixels (when not moving) and the maximum is 24 + (5.5 x 8.75) = 72.125 pixels.

Thanks a million!

[bazik]

To make this thread cleaner, i made a new topic just on tweaking the values of collisions:
http://www.newstarsoccer.com/newstarforum/showthread.php?t=9424

[Sida79]

I've found 0.2 to be a fine value for cars damage but wall damage is still not enough, I'm testing 8.0 right now and is still too small a punishment for such a stupid move as a wall crash is :D

[dfajar2]

The first time I installed v1.08 I could select from multiple resolutions, but the second time I ran the game the only resolution to select was the highest resolution available and the other ones dissapeared. Also when I ran it the second time, it appears as v1.07 and no v1.08
I noticed that this happened after installing v1.08 without uninstalling v1.07. So it should be recommended to uninstalled completely v1.07 and delete settings.ini from \My documents\New Star Grand Prix\ folder.
I helped translating to spanish, but this wasn't the last version I uploaded in the forum. Is the latest version going to be included (I'm kind of a perfectionist and hate spelling errors :D)

[Sida79]

I've just had a race that started wet and finished dry... how about that? :D

[Cookie Monster]

In my case, I started a race in Australia that started wet, went dry, then wet, then dry then wet and then dry. 60 laps btw, was changing weather every 12 laps or so